Curse

Divineshadows · Aug 22, 2006, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

Anet needs to remove elemental weapons from the game

A change so fundamental to game mechanics I cannot see it happening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

bring on the reign of PHYSICAL RESISTANCE!!!

Seriously, I want to use that skill SO badly

ROFL. So you can roam around the battlefield and feel as protected as a hammer warrior would? If it could work this way, then I see the skill fitting easier onto a blessed light bar than a boon prot bar. Mo/W with a +5 energy and +5 armor axe/sword and a tactics shield in which the req is met with Watch Yourself spam can achieve the same effect of physical resistence without the downsides.

JR · Aug 22, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

I'm pretty sure romO wasn't being entirely serious...

Metanoia · Aug 22, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

I like the idea of the evasion rate being based on the illusion attribute. It's one of those skills that are... overly-useful, rather than overpowered (if that makes any sense). 6 attribute points in exchange for a 75% evasion stance, dispite the energy costs, is a life-saver and probably a little too affordable.

*Wonders what Distortion would be like with Dodge's dynamic evasion rate*

Ps. Almost all other stances by comparison are rather pathetic, IMO. I like the idea of stances being... well, stances. They should be things you switch to and from freely that provide bonuses which are balanced by their penalties. At the moment they're pretty overpowered, but 'balanced' via downtime. When you think about it, there are a lot of 'overpowered' skills, some performing very unique roles, that just never see the light of day because of this old fashioned style of balancing. It doesn't seem to suit the game play of GW very well at all.

shardfenix · Aug 23, 2006, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Personally, I think distortion is fine...unless it's on a ranger, in which case the initial cost is 2 energy. Nerf expertise.

The thing about distortion is that in the 5 seconds it's on, you get only 1.6 energy back, so every time you use distortion you're losing, at the very least, 3 energy net.
On rangers, you lose .3333 energy every time you use distortion, meaning it's basically free. Nerf expertise.

romO · Aug 23, 2006, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I'm pretty sure romO wasn't being entirely serious...

I'm always entirely serious. Especially when I use caps lock and multiple exclamation points.

LoyalSoldier · Aug 23, 2006, 05:49 AM // 05:49

I am going to go out and say no it isn't. If it wasn't for the fact that Warriors have some of the best damage in the game it might be. Though how else are you suppost to defend against warriors? Wards are ok, but lack mobility like this. The other stances aren't quite as useful.

I know it can be annoying, but really I don't think it needs to be nerfed by much.

Wasteland Squidget · Aug 23, 2006, 08:16 AM // 08:16

In any discussion like this, you need to recognize that a melee counter is the same thing as a damage counter. If a team isn't able to do damage in melee they're not able to do damage, outside of a spike. Heal Party > Degen and DDs just don't cut it.

Thus, Distortion needs to be evaluated on its effectiveness as a general damage counter. It's not like it counters a specific build or something - it counters every build that isn't a pure caster spike.

Patrograd · Aug 23, 2006, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

. It's not like it counters a specific build or something - it counters every build that isn't a pure caster spike.

No, it partially counters every build apart from the caster spike, specifically the physical element of those builds, and then only for a limited duration of time. It is the same as heal party countering the pressure element of builds. Distortion wont keep you up indefinitely against physical attacks, and heal party wont keep you up indefinitely against degen. In the end the energy requirements of both skills will see you fall over.

timmyw29 · Aug 23, 2006, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Something I noticed today was that 13-spec illusion (iirc) means Distortion is a 1 energy cost per evade. Maybe shift things so that 9 or 10 spec is the 2-energy evade and 14 or 15 for the 1-energy evade.

That'll pretty much mean a ranger has to sacrifice significantly more attribute points for the beloved 2-energy evade, or suffer the alternative of the 3-energy evade. A slightly more serious trade-off. Mesmers using Distortion normally have a reasonable spec in Illusion to begin with, so it shouldn't hit them quite so hard.

Granted that a smart Ranger using Distortion isn't going to worry about a 3-energy evade, really, but at least this way there's more reason to think of alternatives if you want to use Distortion on your Ranger.

Carinae · Aug 23, 2006, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmyw29

Something I noticed today was that 13-spec illusion (iirc) means Distortion is a 1 energy cost per evade. Maybe shift things so that 9 or 10 spec is the 2-energy evade and 14 or 15 for the 1-energy evade.

That'll pretty much mean a ranger has to sacrifice significantly more attribute points for the beloved 2-energy evade, or suffer the alternative of the 3-energy evade. A slightly more serious trade-off. Mesmers using Distortion normally have a reasonable spec in Illusion to begin with, so it shouldn't hit them quite so hard.

Granted that a smart Ranger using Distortion isn't going to worry about a 3-energy evade, really, but at least this way there's more reason to think of alternatives if you want to use Distortion on your Ranger.

You're quite good if you can use Mesmer runes on a Ranger primary. Damn.

Therein lies the reason Distortion works as it does.

JR · Aug 23, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

You're quite good if you can use Mesmer runes on a Ranger primary. Damn.

Er, what?

Neo-LD · Aug 23, 2006, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Although Distortion is basically the only playable self-defense stance in the game (aside from whirl/oath), I personally think its a bit over the top. It stops all melee based pressure dead in its tracks and owns adrenospike pretty hard. It pretty much counters every non-caster spike build there is... some people say it only counters 'the physical part' of eveyr build... well, in truth thats really the only part that matters. If your wars cant hit anything it doenst much matter what your casters are doing. Sure its definately possible to overcome the distortion counter, but its pretty damn strong.

I'd add something like "distortion ends after it evades 1...10 attacks." That would let a spike victim be able to dodge a significant potion of an adrenpspike (most people would have enough illusiion to evade about 6-7 attacks) but still let warriors power through it if they swing enough. Or, they could reduce the evasion rate to 50%. Or, they could give it a recharge of 12s. Something that still leaves it playable but makes it not so...over the top.

Carinae · Aug 23, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Er, what?

Oh indeed. Coffee hasn't engaged yet. I understand now, sarcasm withdrawn.

overclocked · Aug 23, 2006, 04:52 PM // 16:52

geee i wonder what brought this about?
The skill is fine. You need to bring wildblow, or learn to call spikes on something else. Just like you dont call spikes on a war with endure pain. Just like you don't cry about losing to a team with massive hex removal what all you run is hexs.

Learn to play better, learn to make better builds. I know the teams who created the build your using have no trouble with distorsion, lol.
Sry thats the truth, but its just a strong skill. I think maybe you would sound less like a scrub if you wanted a recharge buff to rigor or something?

Neo-LD · Aug 23, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by overclocked

geee i wonder what brought this about?
The skill is fine. You need to bring wildblow, or learn to call spikes on something else. Just like you dont call spikes on a war with endure pain. Just like you don't cry about losing to a team with massive hex removal what all you run is hexs.

Learn to play better, learn to make better builds. I know the teams who created the build your using have no trouble with distorsion, lol.
Sry thats the truth, but its just a strong skill. I think maybe you would sound less like a scrub if you wanted a recharge buff to rigor or something?

Wild blow is not an effective counter, please do not eer suggest so again. Also, which target would you suggest spiking if every single one has distortion (or is a warrior)?

There does not seem to be any problem with the playing or the builds of the people in question: believe it or not, this is something that affects everyone, not just NUKE.

Lastly, whatever personal vendetta you have against squidget, you take care of that priveately, and stop publicily infesting these boards with your continuous snide comments. It is rather annoying that the only time you seem to post is to insult NUKE and/or squidget, and so far I cant think of a single intelligent contribution youve made to any one of those threads.

Divineshadows · Aug 23, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Wild blow is not an effective counter, please do not eer suggest so again. Also, which target would you suggest spiking if every single one has distortion (or is a warrior)?

Wild blow is actually a decent counter to distortion if the wild blow is on an assassin or thumper skillbar. Trying to design a warrior build with wild blow that is still effective at adrenal spiking, getting knockdowns, and getting deep wound is a nightmare though...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

There does not seem to be any problem with the playing or the builds of the people in question: believe it or not, this is something that affects everyone, not just NUKE.

QFT. Your build has to have some counter or plan for dealing with distortion. Snares help you pound the energy out of the target provided you're willing to train the target and your opposition cannot punish a period of extended training. Mesmer effects like diversion and energy denial are also very good against distortion users. Even your monks can pitch in against that overextended enemy mesmer who feels that distortion is an aura of invincibility by wanding them to drain their energy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Lastly, whatever personal vendetta you have against squidget, you take care of that priveately, and stop publicily infesting these boards with your continuous snide comments. It is rather annoying that the only time you seem to post is to insult NUKE and/or squidget, and so far I cant think of a single intelligent contribution youve made to any one of those threads.

QFT. I was just about to post something with a similar message. Not surprisingly no guild tag is listed from this individual who is probably just bitter because his/her guild lost to [NUKE] running their triple smite with warriors using gale.

Align · Aug 23, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

I'd add something like "distortion ends after it evades 1...10 attacks."

Won't that mean you need like 5 warriors to get in those 10 hits before distortion ends and is refreshed? In which case the target is going to be low on energy anyway.
Am I understanding right when its not constant Distortion thats the problem, but rather using it just when youre about to get pounded by a spike, and then letting it run out?
What about increasing the duration to 8s like with Frenzy?

timmyw29 · Aug 23, 2006, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Wild blow is actually a decent counter to distortion...

I would tend to agree, except it is essential to land Wild Blow first. That adds an extra dimension of coordination to your melee spike, and means you really need to get the kill within about 2.5 seconds using an adrenal spike (I'm assuming Distortion has been up for a few seconds when Wild Blow cancels it). If you don't coordinate to hit Wild Blow first then you've lose half of your melee spike right off the bat, which I guess is far better than losing all of it.

It's possible, indeed feasible, just really freakin' irritating still.

We're all missing the most obvious counter in the game, though. WARRIOR'S CUNNING!!!!1one

Drewfense · Aug 24, 2006, 12:20 AM // 00:20

I know from a monks perspective, distortion is not overpowered in anyway and a slight change (10 e/10 s for example) would nerf the skill to unusable. The energy cost of distortion is extremely high (with 3 ill on a monk, the minimum cost of the skill if kiting is about 11 with one warrior on you). Consequentially, if distortion is cast on a fake spike, the monk is significantly drained of energy. From personal experience (I run distortion whenever I go woh/infuse in GvG), I don't hit distortion until I actually see a warrior hit their first attack skill, otherwise I often regret it.

The second reason is there are very viable alternatives to Distortion. The most popular atm being Dark Escape. There are even some good warrior stances for certain builds. The main reason Distortion is still favored is not because it is so much better than these other stances, but switching to a different secondary comes at the loss of mesmer energy management. A skill or skill class really isn't unbalanced until there is no viable alternate option. For example, is there an axe elite you would bring other than Eviscerate?

As for countering Distortion, a previous poster mentioned fighting a team with 6 copies of it. Assumingly the team is largerly compose of mesmers with high illusions and likely 2 boon prots with low illusion. The best way to fight this type of build (assuming you are running balanced) is to build up on the mesmers, draining them of energy and forcing them to kit. Then fake spike the monks frequently. Have the warriors look like they are going in for a spike, but just frenzy and hack a little. After doing this a few times, unless the monks are good at using distortion, they should be fairly drained and you can spike with skills on the monks.

Wasteland Squidget · Aug 24, 2006, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmyw29

I would tend to agree, except it is essential to land Wild Blow first. That adds an extra dimension of coordination to your melee spike, and means you really need to get the kill within about 2.5 seconds using an adrenal spike (I'm assuming Distortion has been up for a few seconds when Wild Blow cancels it). If you don't coordinate to hit Wild Blow first then you've lose half of your melee spike right off the bat, which I guess is far better than losing all of it.

Wild Blow resets your adrenaline, so you'd have to have a guy in the spike dedicated to Wild Blow. It's okay if you're trying to pressure a target who's temporarily out of monk range (ie: a ranger who overextended to kill your flagger), since autoattacks add up fairly quickly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

I know from a monks perspective, distortion is not overpowered in anyway and a slight change (10 e/10 s for example) would nerf the skill to unusable.

I agree that Distortion seems to be balanced for a monk to use at the moment. It's a skill that makes sense for them, because draining a monk's energy is the equivilant of damaging his team. A monk with Distortion can be pressured, because even if you don't get the kill on him you'll still kill his team.

Energy on a mesmer or ranger is much cheaper than energy on a monk though. Not having monk energy for even a short time is almost certain to incur deaths on your team, while not having mesmer or ranger energy isn't a big sacrifice if they got some job done through their overextension. Health for ranger energy is almost always a good trade, so attacking the enemy mesmers and rangers becomes a poor play. That's why I termed these characters as invulnerable - it's not that you can't damage theme ventually, it's that attempting to kill them gives the enemy monks a break and reduces a lot of pressure on the enemy team.

If Distortion were linked to Divine Favor instead of Illusion magic, this thread wouldn't exist. It's a perfectly balanced and useful skill on a monk.